"I love Asian women!" The man, standing all too close to me and invading my space bubble exclaimed at the bar.
"Oh, are you an Asianphile?" I asked.
Stammering and taken aback, he tried to tell me how it was different. Except, that it was not. After telling him my ethnicity, he tried to tell me he used to date a Filipina woman, as if, like a resume, his credentials would impress me. Except, it did not.
An Asianphile is a Caucasian male that prefers Asian women simply because they are Asian. He likes their exotic looks and subservience, and fails to see Asian women as individual people, but rather as a fetish. To be fair, not all men who date Asians are necessarily Asianphiles, but some certainly are. Even so, It is rare to see a Caucasian female paired with an Asian male in a relationship. More often than not, it is the other way around. Why? How do attitudes in our culture portraying Asian females relate to the roles we play in our own lives?
Growing up in America for 22 years, in predominantly white neighborhoods, I have had the unique experience of being both Asian, and American. This combination left me feeling "mostly white" and a developing hatred towards my own skin. I didn't know how to be Asian, and didn't want to be reminded of my difference. To the people around me, I wanted to be seen as white. I wanted this invisible wall of race completely shattered. I didn't want to be an issue.
After highschool, I began dating, and not surprisingly, all of the men I've dated have been Caucasian. I try to tell myself it's what I prefer, but the reality is: it's what's been available. I have no say on whether I would have a preference over Asian men because I haven't dated any. And while I'd like to think none of the men I've dated have been Asianphiles, it's no surprise that most, if not all of them, have had an attraction for (but not necessarily a preference over) exotic beauty.
Being a first generation immigrant with my mom, who married an American that legally adopted me, I have seen first-hand what it looks like to be subservient. My mom, for want of a better life for me, signed up for a "pen-pal" service which is a nicer way of saying mail-order bride. Her only goal was to fly to America and be a wife to any American that'd take her. Not surprisingly, my dad is an Asianphile. I've seen his stash of Asian porn and internet relationships with other Filipina women abroad. I've seen the way he yells at mom and I, and exerts his power and dominion as "man of the house".
Learning from example, it is also not surprising that I've taken that subservience into my own life. I am too passive-aggressive. I don't take control of my own life. My personality wavers at the presence of others, and I bend to what they want me to be, or do. My first boyfriend told me something I will never forget.
"I know you better than you know yourself."
At 18, coming from a 16 year old, that was a slap in the face. After telling my last boyfriend about these events, tears down my cheek, he told me the reason he said that was because, well, it's kinda true. In relationships, I've consistently lost a sense of "who I am" and bended to the will of others. I've consistently played the subservient role.
The Caucasian male/Asian female relationship is more often than not, a relationship of dominance and submission; power and control. Even if the Caucasian male does not think of himself as an Asianphile, subconsciously, he is exerting dominance by being with an Asian female. Within my own relationships, I have had recurring patterns and issues concerning power and control. By seeing this model throughout my parent's relationship, I was faced with the ability to shift the power/control dynamics from my boyfriend, to myself. At any given time, I could act like my dad, or like my mom, and neither of them attractive traits. One boyfriend hated power/control dynamics but found himself stuck in the cyclical pattern within his own life, up to his relationship with me, and beyond. When he realized this was the game we played, his inability to deal with it or help change the circumstance to the point of mentally and emotionally shutting down, contributed to the demise of our relationship.
Perhaps when they say you should date out of your type, I should try dating Asians. How will the dynamic change? Will it be any better or worse without the barrier of race in between? Will dominance and submission still be evident? Why don't more Caucasian women date Asian men?
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35 wandering stars:
Interesting post. I personally don't think that control issues stem from one race over any other specific race, but the stereotypes are certainly there. You may or may not have more issues in dating Caucasian men because of these generalizations, but if you're physically attracted to a certain race, why rule them out?
As for the Caucasian women/Asian men pairing, I would chalk that up partially to the (slowly evaporating) glass ceiling and the lack of Asian-Americans in high-profile jobs in politics, music, sports and Hollywood. We're not strongly portrayed and pervasive like Caucasians and African-Americans are.
I think you're learning to take control. At least it seems that way. I'd say after your last relationship, you've changed a lot. I don't think you'll enter another relationship the same as you have in the past.
And as far as learning and growing goes, that's a good thing :) Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results... but you're not doing that. There ya go. . . don't let anyone (especially not your ex) tell you you're insane ;)
#endtangent.
One simple reason might be that Caucasian women are often taller than Asian men. That may not be an important factor for all of them, but it probably is for many of them -- whether they realize it consciously or not.
I can totally understand your views and opinion on this issue, because you had a very negative experience within your own family and in your relationships.
Well, I was in serious relationship with a Western and Asian (Chinese) girl and I tell you, there was no such thing as dominance and submission. Not with me, because I always treat my woman well and don't put myself above or below. The newer generation of these kind of couples are so much different than your fathers generation. I have many foreign friends who are in such relationships/marriages and I've never seen or heard of such instances.
Yes, I've seen in Malaysia, Singapore and HK couples where the Asian girl is young and from a poor country and the guy is white fat bold and old (supposedly) rich. I think these are the types of relationships that you described. The Chinese girls I've met, who are now in their twenties, are very in charge, many times more than the guys. Things are changing with the Web 2.0 generation, many of these girls work, don't depend on the guy. But there's always exceptions and bad seeds, who still cast a bad shadow on interracial relationships.
In the end, if you fall in love, you don't see the race, you see the person. You want to make it work (at least that's how I do). I lived with a Chinese family, learned language, adapted to their way of life. So if you call that Asianphile, then I am one, but not only because I loved a Chinese woman, I also traveled around there, been to temples, learn the language, am interested in art and culture.
Sorry for being so long, hehe. But this topic is somehow a big part of my life. I really enjoyed your post and I think you will get many good comments. I'm looking forward to that. I wrote about a similar topic here and also got lots of responses. :)
As for Asian male and white female, there's less of these relationships, because Asian males are stereotyped as weak, shy, dependent on the mother, there's not many male Asian models... and so the stereotype sticks. When my Korean friends came to visit me, I was sure that they would be able to have a white girl, some looked good. But even they acknowledged that they are shy when it comes to woo women. I think without the unjust stereotypes, there would be much more of AM/WF couples... Asian males need to be bolder and proove those stereotypes wrong. Because they definitely are wrong. I think you, Floreta, should look at the person's character, not race, because you have white and Asian guys who are assholes and those who are great boyfriends. :-)
Wish you good luck :)
This post is absolutely fascinating, and I think there is a huge fetishism at play in Caucasiandom, and it comes up time and time again in our pop culture, from music to TV and film. Jesus, just look at internet porn. I mean, I look at it. A lot, and it is absolutely saturated with Asian-centered porn-- completely-- animated and live action.
Personally, I am left to sadly blame my literary hero, W. S. Gilbert, for Yum-Yum, Peep-Bo & Piti-Sing-- the three little maids in "The Mikado."
He bloody started it.
Oy. What a topic.
As the product of a white male / Asian female relationship myself (and with three childhood friends of the same background) of course this is something I have thought a lot about. Worried about, even. Is my dad an Asianphile? (Or as I more commonly hear it in Houston, Does he have yellow fever?) The conclusion I happily came to is no, given his relationship history and my mom's. But I do still sometimes see him expecting my mom to act a certain way, based on the stereotypes of Asian females, and being surprised (unpleasantly) when she doesn't.
And I give my mom credit for that too. Since coming to America, a difficult thing to do no matter what your reasons or circumstances, my mom has grown a lot. Some would say she's more Westernized. (I'd have to disagree, considering how often I get yelled at for disrespecting my elders, etc.) But I think she's just stronger. She's found her voice, and she uses it. A lot of women, Asian or not, never do that.
A friend in middle school was in a similar situation as you, except that her mom found a "pen pal" BEFORE my friend was born. So she is mixed like me, and I always wondered what it was like for her -- did the circumstances of her parents' meeting embarrass her? (I guess not that much if she told me about it, but then again, did she really understand when we were 12? Does she now?)
Also, the fetishism goes both ways. In Asia, the fashions and beauty trends are often in favor of more Caucasian looks (bigger eyes, whiter skin, blonde hair, etc.). I mean, look at Sailor Moon, right?
Obviously I don't have any big picture answers, but I will say this: regardless of race, it's important to make sure YOU are present in your relationships. I'm one of those people that acts as a chameleon, changing my colors slightly depending on where I am and who I'm with, so that I can fit in. But at the core, underneath my rainbow skin, I am always myself. I think you can bend in a relationship, make compromises to keep it healthy, but you don't have to be submissive.
(Also, why don't more Caucasian women date Asian men? Honestly, I think because they tend to be short. But I AM seeing it on the rise. Then again, I went to a college with 33% Asians, so maybe the women there were also just choosing from what was available. :P)
(Also also, I find my relationship so funny, because I am a half white/half Asian dating a guy who is all Asian physically but all white culturally! So goofy.)
Hmm, very interesting. I think Asian women are very submissive to their Caucasian counterparts because of inferiority complex coming from a poor country. Filipino women are always known as good wives but I'm never too sure really about the reason why. I'm having lots of thoughts on this which could go from good to bad.
Love your fearless post!
And about your question, "Why don't more Caucasian women date Asian men?" I think Asian guys are on common grounds with Asian women. You know the Caucasian and Asian comparison and guys are supposedly to play the dominant part and of course they don't want to bruise their egos. It's pride, I guess (and most Asians are small, if size does really matter, you know what I mean).
bryan - well why do stereotypes exist? they have to come from somewhere. and it's based on some truth. although, the over-generalized nature of a stereotype blows it out of unfair proportion. good point about asian men/caucasian female pairing. asians are still viewed as minority and don't have a lot of strong profile in culture. but there's that word again: asian men are not *dominant*!
chase - :) thanks for your faith. i'll have to say that i agree with you. i feel so much different now than my past. but my fear is that i'll be back to where i was in my next relationship. so i'm doing all that i can consciously not to make that happen. good point re: insanity. i remember hearing that phrase before.. and you're right, i am NOT insane ;)
bard - good point. even i prefer taller guys of 5'10 or above. and i'm only 5'1. ha. it's just a personal preference..
MKL - don't ever apologize for a long comment!! i would hope that this topic brings about good discussion that requires more than just the average 2 or 3 sentence :P i'll admit my post is biased on my own experiences, which have not been great. it is common fact that people tend to recreate relationships that they see in their parents so it's just what i knew.. my main argument was that in general, white male/asian female pairing does have some level of dominance/submissive dynamic in varying degrees. good point that it is changing in web 2.0 era and especially as we get into 2nd and 3rd generation asian families. but i come from first generation. it's a little different. =/ i also agree with true love not seeing colors.. i'm not sure that any of my relationships had strong direct racial connotations but on a subconscious level the patterns were still there.. hm.
MKL - that's what i was getting at with bryan too though. because asians are portrayed stereotypically as weak, it's more likely that asian females pair with caucasian males. because the opposite of weak is: strong, dominant. etc. and there we go with my main argument. i definitely agree asians should be portrayed more in media, etc. even african americans have more roles in film, although stereotypical they are usually played as the villain, so is that any better?
mr. apron - yes, lots of fetishism with asians. even some of my ex boyfriends who like 'exotic beauty' prefer the look of asians or latinas etc. one of my exes showed me a picture of some asian model he likes. and he currently has a crush on a nepali girl.. so it's interesting to see how i was clearly his choice because of my looks. whether you have a 'preference' or not, the fetishism IS out there to be consumed. one of my exes views asian porn. not necessarily above other 'types' but he HAS viewed it. and while i'm very open towards porn the asian porn makes me feel uncomfortable to say the least. i guess i'm wary of the fact that the fetish is out there to be consumed. and how that plays not only for asianphiles, but for men who claim not to be...
Yes, you are right. If we dig deep down, we will find racial connotations in every of those relationships, even if we don't want to see it. Because every couple faces racial prejudice, be it outside with strangers or closer, in the family or family history. But race matters more to the generation of our parents. I think the twens from today are much more comfortable to mix, date, marry with people outside their race. It's far from perfect, it will never be. But it's a huge leap from the 1960s and 1970s.
And the domination thing is more a male phenomenon, not just for white males. Asian societies (Korean, Japanese, Chinese) are built on male dominance and if you think well, you will see that many Asian girls want to escape this pattern by being witha Western guy. How many times I heard Asian girls saying how openminded Westerners are, family and society are huge means of pressure for some girls to behave certain way. And apart from those douchebags in the West, who want a submissive Asian wife, I think most of the guys who honestly love the Asian girl for her character, beauty, wit, don't want to be in charge. Maybe that's a prejudice, coming to USA from people who served in Vietnam, Korea, Japan and Philippines. We don't have in Europe such strong stereotype like USA, seems to me.
I don't know. I'm open to discussion :)
Even though I can't relate, I really enjoyed your perspective on this. Awesome post, lady.
OMG This was a terrific post!
1st off, I am a 1st gen american filipina. Both my parents are Filipino that came to the states separately (both for work, mom was a nurse and dad was in the navy). They met in Philadelphia.
So I can't relate to your view persay. I grew up in a predominantly white town but the NW has a huge asian population so it wasn't hard to find "my" people. All through high-school ALL my friends and boyfriends were asian, mostly Filipino.
My first white boyfriend was in college, he was my first longterm serious "in-love" boyfriend, who I am still friends with to this day. My BF now is also white. We have been together for 5 years.
They both are what you describe as asianphiles since they both have a history of dating asian women. My Bf now says he has yellow fever! The thing is that with both of them I am not subservient to them in any way. Quiet opposite actually. Ok, that's not true. It's very equal.
Perhaps it's because I am born and raised american and both my parents are asian that I have a different opinion on white men dating asian women. I decided after college that I wasn't going to date asian men for a while. The truth is that as much as race place a role in some parts of relationships, the core issues always revolve around the individuals themselves.
Great post! =)
kristan - each of our experiences are still very individual and different. while i was raised in a white male/asian female household, i am still full filpino and have never met my biological dad. growing up in the west has definitely put me more westernized than "asian". i often think of myself as having a white experience rather than a brown one :P the circumstances of my parent's meeting embarasses me a bit. when i tell peope they were penpals though, most people think it's sweet and don't really get the negative connotation :P good point. fetishism DOES go both ways. there are different markets for it. i don't have any big picture answers either.. this is such a touchy subject to write about and i was afraid that i wasn't going to get it "right". i don't claim to be an expert nor taken any international studies/asian culture type classes. all i have is experience. it is something i hope to write more about though and delve deeper in! (and, it was an attempt for that asian blog carnival. thanks so much for that link!)
joemill - great that i could give you some brainstorm ideas. there are definitely a lot of thoughts associated with this here.. it's a very broad subject! i'm not quite sure why asian women or in particular, filipina's are thought of as good wives. something to do with our "hospitality" and "loyalty". *shrugs* everyone has good ideas as to why there are less caucasian female/asian male pairs. it really does/can come down to something as superficial as size and height.. but inferiority is a good point also. asian men have minority issues.. hm.
MKL - more great points! dominance is a male 'trait' regardless of race. look at the history of concubines in china, etc..
lilu - thanks m'dear. i was nervous on this one :X
eQ - i am first generation too.. i think? now you're making me doubt what that means. i'm a first generation immigrant. came here when i was three. true, the NW is filled with asians and i live in the NW too.. BUT i still have been in predominantly white neighborhoods. i did not have asian groups. i would say we made up less than %5 of my highschool population and the current town i live in is equally less diverse. beautiful, but not diverse. it kills me sometimes! i've never had a group of "my" people. i grew up becoming very angry at my own culture. it was very weird. the ONE filipina in my school was my friend though and we still keep in contact to this day. again in college, all my experiences have been asian MINORITY. my 1st yr of college was at a uni. in a dry town less than 10,000 people.. you can imagine not much diversity. and then i went to a private art school after that.. lots of rich white folks etc. in the upper-class, white section of portland (the pearl district). i really don't see anything inherently WRONG in asianphiles. it's when they become to fetishize the asian and don't take into part their individuality that bothers me. but some people really do just have a preference for asian women just as some people prefer blondes or brunettes. and some men don't like dating anyone other than caucasian. etc. it's personal preference. obviously, i don't have a problem dating caucasian males :P
(loved that episode of Def Poetry)
But I see this a lot with men who were in the military; especially around Vietnam. And I appreciate that they were under extreme conditions and that that affected their impressions. But to turn Asian women into a fetish isn't "justifiable" because of the things you've seen and done.
I think you would already know that I find this post to be interesting. Like you I am first generation filipino growing up in a heavy caucasian region. Just to give you an idea there was only one other asian kid in my town growing up.
I've only ever dated caucasian women. And from my experience I've only ever seen one other asian male/caucasian female relationship. What I find interesting though is that I don't think I would know how to approach an asian girl without thinking about her ethnicity, which you bring up very well in your post. For cases like you and I, I feel like when people of the opposite sex meet us we are asian first and a person second.
It's funny because sometimes I am torn between my own self-identification., I feel like I don't completely identify with my up-brining in white suburban American and my ethnic roots. As you stated in your posts of not knowing how to be asian. This was most clear when I visited the philippines for the first time a couple years ago.
Great post floreta
fB - a lot of the attitudes i'm sure did come from military bases. there were a lot of them in the philippines.
canadian doubles - glad you enjoyed this! i hope to write more about cultural identity issues so stay tuned! :D i'm right there with you. i feel i don't quite fit in with my suburbia western upbringing OR my asian roots.. hm.
very interesting post. i am an indian and i have spent only 2 yrs here in US..though i cant say i hv experienced what you hv written abt, but it makes sense and i can completely understand it... with Indian families, its a lil bit different
First of all, I love women of all races/ethnicity. However, my favorites are Latinas, whites, and Asians. I'm a Latino who grew up appreciating Asian culture through Asian TV programs, dramas, movies, and even Asian martial arts. I may not be Asian, but Asia is part of who I am today.
Secondly, I do believe the reverse is true. Women are naturally the more selective sex when it comes to relationships and sexual encounters, and what I've found is that most women describe their ideal man in the same way.
Strong, smart, independent, assertive, sensitive, handsome.
Most of these traits just scream out "DOMINANT" to me. Yes I said it! I believe women in general have a passive desire to be dominated.
You yourself said it earlier, Asian men aren't dominant. So Asian women look towards the white men for dominance.
Many white men simply don't have the balls to be dominant towards a modern, empowered American woman. This means they have to go elsewhere to exert their dominance.
White women realize their men aren't dominating them, so some turn towards black men. Black men have grown up dealing with black women, which I'm sure most of us can agree, are a hassle! :P
Growing up with such demanding black women, black men have an easy time dominating white girls.
What about Latinos? Well, Latino men have historically been very macho, and the culture teaches men to dominate women and women to obey their husband. So a Latino man can easily dominate a latina, a white girl, and an asian. This just happens to be my exact preferrences in women...odd no?
So in this small ecosystem of women seeking dominance and men seeking to dominate, the only ones who truly loose out seem to be the Asian men and the black women. I think the fault falls on both men AND women for this situation.
Have you seen the "Yellow Fever" video on YouTube about why Asian men have trouble picking up Caucasian women (but not Asian women picking up Caucasian men)? I found it pretty amusing. But if you're saying that Asianphiles like Asian women because of their subservience, would that suggest that white women don't like Asian men because of their domineering natures? That might make sense, except that at least the Asian-American men I know (and even the Asian men I know) have never seemed threateningly domineering to me, except for the older generations (grandparents) to some extent.
More to the point, nor have most of the Asian-American or Asian girls I know seemed subservient. They're just as pushy and snippy as any other girl (maybe even more so...I could name a few names here). I've seen them date white guys, and their relationship with the guy has never seemed subservient to me. Maybe I've just never witnessed a true Asianphile-Asian relationship.
I can understand Caucasian men being attracted to the "exotic" beauty of an Asian woman, and perhaps also to the stereotypical petite Asian figure. And I can understand Caucasian women being unimpressed by Asian guys' similarly petite figures. I understand that in some situations, subservience of the woman might enter into it (like with the tough situation of your mother, which I can understand might rub off on you), but it has not been my personal experience here in the U.S.
That said, any random guy who exclaims "I love Asian women!" at a bar is a douche. At best it's an appearance thing, like "I love blondes!"--it may be your preference, but it's not exactly the most intelligent way to a girl's heart. And if it's not an appearance thing, then it's making some other generalization about Asian women, and whatever generalization that may be, making racial generalizations is offensive.
OK, sorry, just made a long comment then happened to see the comment before mine and had to respond...
@OmegaRadium-
Strong, smart, independent, assertive, sensitive, handsome--these traits do not scream out "domineering" to me. I would say that most women do want a man who is capable of dominating his field/profession (hence smart, independent, and assertive) and defending her (hence strong--physically strong is becoming less necessary in the modern world, though the instinct is still there). But if a guy is sensitive, that seems actually to be a trait in opposition of a domineering nature (and handsome doesn't seem to have any bearing on it).
Besides, just because a guy is capable (strong, smart, independent, assertive) does not mean that he will be dominating towards his woman. He should not be, and I don't think women want that. Not in a general sense. Maybe they want a guy to be able to take charge and solve their problems for them if needed. Maybe they want their guy to dominate from time to time in the bedroom. But they do not want to be ruled--they want to be able to do whatever they want to do, without a leash.
Maybe we just have different definitions of domination, and that's causing the disagreement. But I can't think of any girl I know who really wants to be dominated by a man. If what you say is true about white men lacking the balls to be dominant towards an empowered American woman, the reason they don't have the balls to do so is because they know the empowered American woman does not want to be dominated. If she did, it wouldn't require such balls. And, by your logic, if the white women aren't being dominated by white men and are forced to turn towards the more dominating black men (as you say), then why don't we see more of these pairings? Seriously, they're not common enough to account for all the empowered white women who are looking for more dominating men.
As another note, if Asian women are subservient because the culture teaches the men to dominate women and women to obey their husband (as it seems you would agree--forgive me if I'm wrong), then why aren't Asian men in the same position as Latino men (since you said the same was true of Latino culture)? In general, your argument needs much more defense to be convincing.
@Floreta - Sorry for the second long comment! It's a very interesting, thought-provoking post. Thanks.
@Eleni
I think our definition of "domination" may be why our opinions are clashing. I'm not referring to total domination, "I am man, obey me woman!" type of dominating.
Domination to me is just what you said above. "...they want a guy to be able to take charge and solve their problems for them if needed. Maybe they want their guy to dominate from time to time in the bedroom." This is exactly what I mean by "dominate." The male must have the dominant attitude & physique in the relationship in order to keep a female happy. (in most cases)
According to the basic description of Latin & Asian cultures, men from both these cultures should be very dominating towards their women.
However, Asian culture is generally much more passive and respectful. They have a group mentality which rewards group thinking rather than independence. Because of this, many Asians simply do whats best for the group, for the country, for their family, rather than for themselves. Life long employment in Asian companies is a well accepted fact in the East. This clashes badly with Western thinking that rewards and encourages independance and risk taking.
I'm sure you've heard the saying "behind every great man is a woman." Why is that? Because women tend to push their men to acheive more. Push him for that degree, push him to upgrade his style, encourage him to work harder for that promotion, take risks to get ahead in life. Women just can't get that satisfaction from traditional Asian men with a group mindset.
Why is it that women constantly return to their abusive husbands? (Not that I condone violence or abusive relationships, on the contrary some men should be castraded for that.)
If women don't want to be dominated to some point, then why go for the jerks? Why the jocks? A woman can't feel that fire deep down when a man is more feminine than her. Don't tell me there isn't something about a muscular firefighter than women don't find attractive? His personality doesn't matter at that point, its his sheer physique capable of dominating in the bedroom that a firefighter represents.
A good body is all it takes. The mental qualities of a "dominating man" can be compeltely faked using the right state of mind and attitude. Guys are learning the art of "game." By using simple "jerk" attitudes and comments in the right social situations, a small percentage of men are dominating the sexual market.
Go to a club and find the most successful male in the place. (successful in this situation means a success with the ladies) He defines the concept of game. Does he seem more feminine than the girls around him? Athletic build, or a thin/fat geeky lookin man? Observe his attitude, does he grovel at the feet of the hottest woman in his pressence? or does he act like an Alpha dog compeltely indifferent towards her beauty? Is he indecisive and full of fear? Or does he know what he wants and never takes no for an answer?
Women don't want a child they have to babysit and constantly reassure, they want a dominating man capable of standing on his own with or without her.
This was a pretty scatter brained answer, which is why I had to write it twice...hope it makes sense.
This is for Omega Radium:
How dare you be so racist and stereo type black women like that? That is why we have problems in the world today with racism.
For one all black women are not the same. Just like any other women, some are hard to deal with, some are not.
I would say that many black American women are strong willed, and that has more to do with the history of the black Americans having to be strong and tough because of the racism over the past hundred (s) of years.
Yes it is true that some American black women will not put up with sh*t from a guy and are tough but that doesn't mean all of them are that way.
Also I could easily bring up the stereo type of latino women being hard to get along with and hell raisers and hot blooded with a temper, but I don't because I know that it is a stereo type.
Some things to a point might be true about a certain persons cultural upbringing but it is not always what the overblown stereo type rumors are.
For everyone else:
I think that if a guy likes asian women, it doesn't mean that he has Yellow Fever.
Yellow fever means that the person will only date, think about, fantasize about asian women.
Some people have a preference, some don't. Some are yellow fevered.
I live in Japan, I date Japanese women, well because there is not much choice otherwise. That doesn't mean that I only like asian women.
Back in the states, I dated different race women, I do not care what race someone is, I care about the person who is inside more. If someone is attractive to me, than they are attractive to me. Doesn't matter what race they are.
naarya - i'm sure its different. each person's experience is their own.
omega - interesting argument. i never thought of this group of black, latino, white, asian in this way. i do think it's a bit of an overgeneralization because as MKL has pointed out, in web 2.0 and as we get further away from grandparent's generation, asian women ARE becoming more empowered or career oriented. this has been what my whole year has been about. trying to be less passive, etc. i won't deny that this is something that has been learned behavior since childhood, but it's something that i'm definitely trying to work on.
i think what you're describing is the alpha male. not all women like 'alpha' personalities though. but, as for being dominated, i definitely think that's sexy in the bedroom. ;)
eleni - no i haven't, i should go look for it! and you summed it up in your last sentence. making racial generalizations IS offensive! that guy at the bar was very insecure.
Some ethnicities are more attractive to certain people than others, but that's really all superficial bullshit. I say after a few dates administer a Meyers-Briggs personality test and then you'll really know if it's worth pursuing. :-)
Conversely, Asian females prefer white males. This was part of some statistics reported by OK Cupid, where the response rate for Asian women to white men was much higher than to Asian men.
I don't really agree with any of what you wrote. I am not NOT attracted to white girls, I just am usually more attracted to girls of color. All of my major relationships have been with pinays and believe me, if there was any dominance it was TOTALLY with her. I was constantly berated and told how I was failing all the time.
yoshiii - thanks for stopping by and your comment. i do think there's a fine line between preference and yellow fever.. it's hard to tell when it goes 'too far'.
JR - hey, i'm right there with you. i TOTALLY think meyer's brigg personality tests give you the best 'matches'.. better than the zodiac! ;P but yes, i was looking at some website and they match personality profiles with the best fit. mine i think was an ENSP or something like that.
andrew - interesting. i'd like to know more... thanks for the comment
jamEs - if you talk to my ex, he'd tell you the same thing about me. heh. so, maybe it is any type of dominant/submissive pattern regardless of who plays the role in the relationship. i do see this in a lot of relationships though.. and maybe it's not even a racial thing. a lot of relationships regardless of race probably have this problem...
Fascinating post, and the comments section has been great as well.
I have written and deleted a lot of rambling about race and D/s but it comes off as boring even to me. So I will cut to the chase and say that since you are aware of the possibility of these issues in your own relationships that I believe you will make better choices for yourself. Good job!
Although there is a correlation between Caucasian-male / Asian-female relationships and ideas about physical dominance or physical submissiveness, I do not think or believe that true male dominance or female submissiveness is the issue.
Like it or not (I tend to like it), western culture has elements of woman worship undercurrents. It is not overt. One can see it in connection with the rise of the cult of the Virgin Mary, and Chivalrous medieval knights willing to defend the honor of the princess. The knight would consider the princess his superior in every way. Yet he was obligated to use his physical strength and power to protect her. She was his superior yet she was dependent on him. .
Certainly from a purely physical expression of love and emotions, most (not all) women want a man to be able to fight to protect her, and most (not all) men want a woman who would not call into question his masculine physical ability to do so.
The fact that many Asian peoples tend to be smaller and more petite than Caucasians correlates well with the subconscious tendencies of many Caucasian men, and Asian females.
Yet, although I believe all the above is true. I know many big strong masculine Caucasian men who want nothing more than to be dominated by a petite female less than half his size.
Floreta-
Great blog and post.
Some thoughts:
1. What is "Asian" really? Often when I hear my white American friends talk about "Asians", they are referring to a specific ethnicity or ethnicities that do not include races from the Indian Subcontinent. Their idea of "Asian" is largely shaped by white-dominated media. Lighter is still better, and East Asians rank higher than blacks and hispanics on this scale with whites on top. Not PC, but I think anyone who pays close attention to how American media portrays different races, these ideas are very obvious. These ideas exist even in the minds of minorities: I know plenty of first generation asians who would be fine with their kids marrying white, but never black. Additionally, there is undoubtedly a preference for lighter skinned, more "white-looking" individuals within the African American community. (Why do blacks feel the need to "relax" their hair? Is is not to look more white?)
2. What is "Asian American"? I am what most Americans would call an Asian American. But frankly, I find this term to be silly - have you ever heard of someone calling a white person a European American? Clearly, different standards of assimilation apply to different ethnicities. A good friend of mine is a second-generation immigrant from Ukraine. She is just "American." I know Chinese whose families have been living in Hawaii for 150 years who are still "Chinese Americans." The funny thing is, "Native Americans" were probably closer genetically to "Asian Americans" than to "Americans."
3. What is "dominance" and masculinity? Many of the people leaving comments refer to the Asian male as lacking in these traits, but few bother to actually define what it is. Is it the ability to provide for one's family? To be big and intimidating so other males won't approach his woman? To command the respect of society at large?
Here are my thoughts on those three questions:
1) I don't know of too many Asian males who have problems providing for themselves or their families. There is an emphasis on education in Asian families (and for good reason as I will explain later on) and this usually ensures that second generation Asians usually are not found on the streets as beggars.
2) Physical size/strength: Hard to say whether Caucasians are necessarily bigger/stronger. I've lived in Asia and Asians, like any race, vary in size. For example, Southern Chinese tend to be a bit shorter, Northern Chinese a bit taller. Since most immigrants from the 1960-80s period were from the south (HK, Taiwan), it could very well be that the sample of Chinese Asians we have in the states is not representative of all Chinese.
Also, I think physical appearance/size is often used as a cover for other racial reasons: why do we not see many black/asian or hispanic/asian couples if "size" is such an important criteria?
Additionally, physical size doesn't matter much in a society in which almost everyone can bear arms if they wish.
3) Societal value. America is a white - dominated society. Obama being president shows that changes are underway, but change takes time. 2nd generation Asian males will likely do better in society than their parents, but we should never forget our parents' generation, and the sacrifices they made. They left their homelands, familiar places, to risk everything in America, an unfamiliar, foreign place which was often hostile to them (plenty of exclusion acts, just flip through the old history textbooks), for their kids. IMHO Asians who say that Asians are not "dominant" based on current societal perceptions and use this as a reason as to why they prefer other races are quite disgraceful. I'm sure they would like to be born into a rich and powerful family (who wouldn't?) but how many of them are willing to work toward creating such an environment for their children and go through the pains and sacrifices of doing so?
FYI: I am an ethnic Chinese born in Taipei and raised in Texas. I have lived for extended periods of time in Beijing, Washington DC, Taipei and Honolulu.
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